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PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 9:42 am 
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RaveGuru wrote:
Would it be feasible with a clockport header on the right side "facing" to the right for connecting RR-Net? Since there's a lot of unused surface and the adress decoding is already there if I got you right, it would be really neat and great valueadd :wink:


Could you elaborate on what why someone would want to connect an RR-NET to an Ethernet Cart?

Jim


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 9:43 am 
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Schema wrote:
Now that's just nutty. 8)


Maybe so, but I thought it was you that told me Six was looking for a way to put 2 cards on one machine?

Jim


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 3:38 pm 
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brain wrote:
Could you elaborate on what why someone would want to connect an RR-NET to an Ethernet Cart?

Perhaps a simple way to get 2 cards in one machine? And the other uses for a clock port are somewhat limited (Silver Surfer, MP3@64, any others?), so what else would it be used for?


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Maybe so, but I thought it was you that told me Six was looking for a way to put 2 cards on one machine?

I think that's already possible by putting one at $DExx and the other at $DFxx, but I've never tried it. I have plenty of NICs for my C64, but there's no existing software that would make use of the 2nd card so I'd have to write something.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 5:23 pm 
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Yeah. Multiple NICs is a must. I mean, how else would I run a software router on my C64?? :o

But please don't waste the entire I/O area for them. People might want to have other devices connected as well.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 4:08 am 
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FMan wrote:
Yeah. Multiple NICs is a must. I mean, how else would I run a software router on my C64?? :o

But please don't waste the entire I/O area for them. People might want to have other devices connected as well.


That was the primary goal. I greatly dislike using the entire IO space for something that only needs 16 bytes of it. While there are easier ways to ensure the Ethernet cart did not waste the entire IO space, it only cost $.28 to add the ability to map to anywhere in the IO space, and I thought that might be useful for someone at some point.

OK, here's the 64NIC+. Based on feedback from the forum and others, I:

  • Moved the Ethernet Jack to the right side
  • Added LEDs that can display up through a clear case
  • Added an 8kB autostart cartridge ROM option. This allows the NIC to have a netboot feature. It can be turned off if unwanted.
  • Added the exalted RESET switch, at top right corner
  • Moved some of the items to better fit SX units and other configurations
  • Tested against WizardNJs (not sure the company name at present) cart cases and Individual Computers cases. Both will work.

I apologize I was not able to add the clockport. I *might* be yet able to add, but I make no promises. However, one can add it via the ROM socket pins and stealing a decode pin on the '138.

The basic cards will probably come without the ROM in place, and the ROM option (switch + EPROM + socket) might be an additional nomimal fee. However, if I can source some 2764's extremely cheap, it might just be part of the base offering.

Check out the new pics and send me any concerns ASAP. I am planning to submit the board for production this Friday.

Image
Image
Image
Easier to read version at: http://www.jbrain.com/vicug/gallery/nic/64NIC_schematic?full=1

Jim


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 5:05 am 
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Outstanding.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 6:46 am 
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That looks beautiful!

The only concern I have is the length of the reset button. From the layout it looks like it's really short. Is that going to be enough to easily access it through the back of the cartridge casing without using a pencil or paperclip? If not, does that footprint accommodate other reset buttons with longer plunger depths? Definitely not a big deal.

I don't know if you used any parts libraries that I made for this, but if you did I hope I made them right and easy to use. That was my first attempt using Eagle for this kind of stuff and I'm not sure if I got all that right. If I didn't please let me know! I don't want to turn this into a "How to use Eagle" thread, but I plan to be at C4 this year and if you have some advice on how to use Eagle better, I'd love to hit you up for that there.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 8:08 am 
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eightbits wrote:
That looks beautiful!

The only concern I have is the length of the reset button. From the layout it looks like it's really short. Is that going to be enough to easily access it through the back of the cartridge casing without using a pencil or paperclip? If not, does that footprint accommodate other reset buttons with longer plunger depths? Definitely not a big deal.

I used a standard tactile switch footprint, but I spec'ed one with a 5.85mm plunger, so it will stick outside the case.
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I don't know if you used any parts libraries that I made for this, but if you did I hope I made them right and easy to use. That was my first attempt using Eagle for this kind of stuff and I'm not sure if I got all that right. If I didn't please let me know! I don't want to turn this into a "How to use Eagle" thread, but I plan to be at C4 this year and if you have some advice on how to use Eagle better, I'd love to hit you up for that there.

I used the CS8900A part you put in the EAGLE library, not your project (I noticed there were a few minor differences, not wure why I didn't just copy the one from the project over), but I did copy across the jack and the magnetics from the project. I didn't see anything wrong with them. I've been referencing your design to ensure I didn't mess anything up (I did mess up the name for the R/_W line, but it's wired correctly. Because I've already got a template PCB layout for the WizardNJ/Individual Computers cases, and Solakian is no more, I used my template.

A few more changes have occurred this evening. I found I can source 27c020 EPROMs for $.80/piece, while 27*64s are $4.00. So, I modified the layout to accomodate both EPROM types, and put pullups on the extra address lines. I also modified the layout to allow some jumpers to switch from 8KB images and 16kB images.

I'm trying to work on bringing the 4 top address lines of the 27C020 out to the back so I can layout a hexadecimal rotary switch. I found some on DigiKey for $3.08, which would allow 16 16kB images (You could probably have all the Ethernet apps in one EPROM...)

I'll put some newer pics up tomorrow night.

Jim


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 9:21 am 
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Fantastic :D

Thanks for changing the Ethernet plug to the right :)

Are you planning on one batch only or depending on popularity will you do more.

cheers

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 12:34 pm 
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Hm.. I'm curious..
1. How long does the C64 hold the data after changing addresses?
2. And does it always hold the data at least until the address changes?


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 2:25 am 
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Devia wrote:
Hm.. I'm curious..
1. How long does the C64 hold the data after changing addresses?
2. And does it always hold the data at least until the address changes?


I'm not sure I understand the question. Can you clarify? What addresses are you talking about?

Jim


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 3:12 am 
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brain wrote:
eightbits wrote:
That looks beautiful!
I'm trying to work on bringing the 4 top address lines of the 27C020 out to the back so I can layout a hexadecimal rotary switch. I found some on DigiKey for $3.08, which would allow 16 16kB images (You could probably have all the Ethernet apps in one EPROM...)

I'll put some newer pics up tomorrow night.

Jim


What apps could you run from a eprom.

Would you be willing to program a eprom with Ethernet apps as a optional extra.

Thanks Shane

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Last edited by zap on Wed Mar 25, 2009 4:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 3:39 am 
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Some updates:

  • I found that 27C020 EPROMS are much cheaper than 2764s ($0.80 versus $3.00), so I modified the layout to allow larger EPROMs, with jumpers and pullups for higher address lines
  • I found and fixed some issues with ROM decoding.
  • I added traces and pinout for 16 position rotary DIP encoder. This can be used with the 27C020 to select 1 of 16 images.
  • I switched the EPROM banking to use 16kB images, with jumper to switch back to 8kB image usage.

Image
Image
Schematic at http://www.jbrain.com/vicug/gallery/nic/64NIC_schematic_001?full=1

I'd appreciate folks looking over things like:

[list=]
[*]ROM /CE and /OE decode logic.
[*]The treatment on the EPROM high address lines
[*]Any issues with the layout.
[/list]

Jim


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 4:05 am 
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zap wrote:
What apps could you run from a eprom.

Would you be willing to program a eprom with Ethernet apps as a optional extra.

My initial thought was a "netboot" app, that would run on startup, support enough of a stack to tftp a larger chunk of code over the Ethernet, and then transfer control to the downloaded program. PC NICs have had that feature for decades.

But, with the additional size, many folks suggested stuffing the EPROM with the various Ethernet apps, like GuruTerm and such.

I'm doing the design, CCCC will have to decide how they want to proceed with burning EPROMs. I suggested we populate the EPROM socket, the resistors, and the diodes, but leave the switch and the rotary switch off the board (they can be easily soldered later. The socket, resistors, and diode add about $1.00 to the cost, which seems worth it.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 4:14 pm 
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brain wrote:
My initial thought was a "netboot" app, that would run on startup, support enough of a stack to tftp a larger chunk of code over the Ethernet, and then transfer control to the downloaded program. PC NICs have had that feature for decades.


And that now exists, at least in rudimentary form. Check out ip65 (via the thread in this very forum) and netboot65:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/netboot65


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