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PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 7:59 pm 
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thanks for the feedback, guys

Nice trick on the 80 column mode!

Re making the cartridge use 80 columns - the 2 issues are 1) space in the cartridge (there's less than 1 KB free) and 2) the telnet client in vt100 mode is using a custom font, and doesn't use the standard kernal calls to update the screen. It might be doable in a cart that was just the gopher client.

Or on an apple 2 :-)


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 8:56 pm 
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jonnosan wrote:
Re making the cartridge use 80 columns - the 2 issues are 1) space in the cartridge (there's less than 1 KB free) and 2) the telnet client in vt100 mode is using a custom font, and doesn't use the standard kernal calls to update the screen. It might be doable in a cart that was just the gopher client.

I'd be interested in a Telnet-only cart. gopher is neat to play with, but I could see myself using Telnet fairly often. It's quite usable in 40 columns, but the option of 80 columns would be nice.

Ultimately I imagine we'll have a mondo-ROM image with rotary switches on our 64NICs to quickly switch images/applications.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 10:37 pm 
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Schema wrote:
I'd be interested in a Telnet-only cart. gopher is neat to play with, but I could see myself using Telnet fairly often. It's quite usable in 40 columns, but the option of 80 columns would be nice.


If anyone can point me at some pillagable source for a c64 80 column mode, I'll have another look at 80 columns after I get XMODEM working. I remember reading an article somewhere on it but can't find it. from memory the article described something like flicking between 2 screens each VBI, with one offset from the other by 4 pixels, and so there are 2 fonts (one for the left hand of each char, one for the right hand). In which case it may be possible to create these fonts in RAM from the vt100 font, and possibly even squeeze it in to the existing cart image.

BTW - 2 questions for schema:
1) do you know if the XMODEM on jammingsignal works with 8 bit checksums, or does it require 16-bit CRCs?
2) does the current version (1.0.23) of kipperterm work 'out of the box' (ie without stty changes) with your nano? or is there still a line wrap issue?


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 4:57 am 
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jonnosan wrote:
...after I get XMODEM working.


Image


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 4:39 pm 
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jonnosan wrote:
BTW - 2 questions for schema:
1) do you know if the XMODEM on jammingsignal works with 8 bit checksums, or does it require 16-bit CRCs?
2) does the current version (1.0.23) of kipperterm work 'out of the box' (ie without stty changes) with your nano? or is there still a line wrap issue?

1) I honestly don't know. EBBS isn't all that sophisticated a program, you're probably better off testing on a different BBS.
2) I'll test it this weekend and let you know then.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 8:56 pm 
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jonnosan wrote:
from memory the article described something like flicking between 2 screens each VBI, with one offset from the other by 4 pixels, and so there are 2 fonts (one for the left hand of each char, one for the right hand).
Ouch! Sounds painful for the eyes. I believe hires mode is the way to go. Of course 4x8 (or more like 3x7) fonts are tricky to read, even more so to create. There are som decent ones in Nova Term. Perhaps they can stand as model for inspiration :)


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 1:57 pm 
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I need some questions for anyone who thinks they might want to use xmodem under kipperterm.

My assumption is that people would be interested in this mainly in order to transfer files to/from petscii boards (as opposed to e.g. a unix shell account).

Further, I assume that most/all of these boards that you can telnet to are going to be using RS232<->TCP convertors, and NOT fully implement the telnet protocol.

Putting these two assumptions together, then I have concluded that my "xmodem over telnet" code should NOT be expecting the remote end to escape any $FF bytes, which have special meaning in telnet (it's IAC - "IS A COMMAND").

Is this reasonable?

Are there any specific boards that people want to ensure kipperterm xmodem works with?

Regards

Jonno


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 1:17 am 
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Finally tried kipperterm 1.0.23 with my Linux vm, without using stty.

I still get the screen scrolling by one line when I run nano, but it looks better than it did before. I think the terminal size is fine, it's just the character at the bottom-right corner (in the nano key list) forcing a scroll.

Lynx and irssi work fine, as they don't use that bottom-right character cell.

An extremely minor quibble, I occasionally get phantom cursors left behind in bash.

Can you make a stand-alone .prg version of kippertem? Ultimately I (and others) might want to run it without burning a 64NIC+ ROM.

Don't forget the border-color indication for when you're connected/disconnected.

Otherwise, looks great! I'm rather enjoying using bash in 40 columns.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 3:49 am 
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Tried out Kipperkart as well. I set the tftp address to jamtronix.com in the config screen as requested, and it resolves to 74.207.242.229 OK, but neither TFP Boot or Net Sidplay work. (get error code:81)


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 12:59 pm 
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Schema wrote:
Tried out Kipperkart as well. I set the tftp address to jamtronix.com in the config screen as requested, and it resolves to 74.207.242.229 OK, but neither TFP Boot or Net Sidplay work. (get error code:81)


81 is a timeout error.

I've rebooted the server just now, and it's working for me at least. Can you try again?


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 06, 2009 12:48 pm 
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some random updates:

I couldn't fit XMODEM in to the existing KipperTerm, so I've split the cart images yet again - a total of 4 base images (with permutations for use in a real EPROM, a Retro Replay, or loading from disk)
1) the basic 'netboot' - just lets you boot a single load basic or M/L program via tftp
2) the 'KipperKart' - netboot plus the apps you run have access to the full TCP stack
3) 'KipperGo' - gopher + telnet (vt100 & petscii, no file transfer)
4) 'KipperTerm' - just telnet (vt100 & petscii, XMODEM file transfer)

Getting a tad absurd I know...

I now have XMODEM download mostly working, not sure when I'll get some more solid coding time to add uploads and do a proper release.Before christmas, I hope. I've decided to assume that anything in vt100 mode (e.g. a linux box) is 'real' telnet with IAC ($ff) escaping, and anything petscii (e.g. the jamming signal bbs) is just raw TCP hence no escaping.

I set up telnetd on my own linux vm and can replicate the behaviour described above (i.e. nano causing a spurious scroll). So will add that to my holiday todo list.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 4:49 pm 
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Sounds good!

I did a demo of KipperTerm and KipperKart 1.0.23 at World of Commodore last Saturday. It was Jonno Appreciation Day in a way, as two of the demos (mine and ShadowM's) focused on ip65 in various configurations. There will be pictures online soon.

The hotel's network was against us (they have a portal that captures DNS and requires login), so we had to rig up a workaround which limited outside connectivity.

However, I was able to show gopher, then vt100 and bash on my Linux VM. The crowd burst into laughter when I ran nano, and there was polite applause when I showed Cursor-Up retrieving the bash history. Lynx in 40 columns was appreciated too.

Then everyone began chanting "emacs...emacs...emacs", but I couldn't install it without a link to the repository. Overall I think people were pretty impressed though (and I believe a few 64NIC+s were sold as a result!)


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 9:33 pm 
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you guys are wonderfull ... i can't wait untill i can get the prg file of the terminal ... -LoVe-


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 10:53 pm 
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mareLock wrote:
you guys are wonderfull ... i can't wait untill i can get the prg file of the terminal ... -LoVe-


I was thinking the same thing. Jonnosan, are you going to release a PRG of the Terminal Program?


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2010 12:40 am 
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I got the PRG of it. Kipperterm is great. However, when I go in PETSCII, it doesn't seem to recognize the commands. I tried bbs.jammingsignal.com and wizbbs.dyndns.org. Jamming Signal does not understand 1 or 2 when asked to select. Wiz BBS does not recognize the backspace. However, when I go in VT100, it all seems to work.


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